Equity

For our inaugural episode, Keisha and Katie sit down with CPS chief of equity, Dr. Maurice Swinney, to talk about what equity looks like in Chicago Public Schools.

Resources discussed in the episode: CPS Equity Toolkit

Episode transcript here

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Transcript

Keisha Wheat: 0:00

Hi everyone, before we start, Katie and I just wanted to give you some context on what you're about to hear. The following episode was originally a conversation we had with CPS Chief of Equity, Maurice Swinney that was recorded back in January of 2020 pre-COVID. We still think a lot of what we've talked about is relevant and an effective way to introduce you all to the equity work being done in CPS. So, we're going to start this episode with that original conversation that we had back in January.

Katie Arbuckle: 0:28

And after it's done, we'll take a break and then we'll come back with an update on what was discussed with Chief Swinney. We'll also get into COVID's impact on the office of equity as we move forward into the new school year and distance learning. All right, let's start the show.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 0:47

You know, I'm not a title fan. It's"Chief." I don't know,"Dr. Maurice"... And then I call myself"Doc Swin." That's my nickname. That's the nickname my students gave me 10 years ago.

Katie Arbuckle: 0:58

That's amazing. In March of 2019, CEO Dr. Janice Jackson rolled out CPS' new Five-Year Vision"Success Starts Here," centered around supporting the needs of all students. The vision focused on expanding access to high quality curriculum and programming and deepening engagement with our families and community partners. The logo for this vision is an apple. You can see this for yourself at cps.edu/vision. The inside of the Apple is split up into three sections, academic progress, financial stability, and integrity. What I was interested in when I first saw this logo was actually the border. If you zoom in for a closer look, you'll see a thick gray outline of the Apple with the word"equity" written within it over and over. It's the visual nod to another core component of the five year vision, ensuring equity for all students. And"all" means"all."

Keisha Wheat: 2:02

When we talk about equity in education, we're talking about narrowing the opportunity gap for our students, specifically our students of color, EL students, students from limited income backgrounds and diverse learners. As teachers, we see how the issue of equity can present itself on all levels. It's in our classrooms, our buildings, our neighborhoods, our city. It's everywhere. And so when you stop and take a second to think about equity and CPS from the teacher's perspective, the work ahead gets very big, very quickly. That obviously speaks to the size of our district, but it also speaks to the importance of this work and the opportunity for great impact ahead of us all.

Katie Arbuckle: 2:39

So to dive into this meaningful work and meaningful conversation about equity and CPS, for our inaugural episode, we are pleased to be joined by the chief of equity for Chicago Public Schools, Dr. Maurice Swinney. Prior to becoming the Chief Equity Officer, Dr. Swinney was the Principal of Tilden Career Community Academy High School on the South Side."Go Blue Devils." So thank you so much and welcome to our podcast Dr. Swinney.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 3:05

Thanks for having me. This is exciting. I didn't realize this was the inaugural episode. That makes this extra special, you know?

Katie Arbuckle: 3:11

That means you better do a good job.

Keisha Wheat: 3:17

We want to just kind of start with the big picture at CPS. What is the five year vision for this equity work?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 3:28

Yeah. So, speaking, when you talked about the,"around the apple," the equity and pointing that out, one of the things Dr. Jackson wanted, and I think all of us wanted, was how do we ensure that equity is not just sort of a cliche or a catchphrase, but that we're thinking about equity in academics and operations and finance, and all of these areas, right? Like, how do we make sure that equity work is everyone's work? And so we knew we had to make a bold statement and put it in the space. You know, the apple was plain, I call it"plain" before then, before the outer shell had"equity" around it. But that that's at the core of it. And it surrounds the work, that equity work is everybody's work.

Katie Arbuckle: 4:12

That's true. And so before we really dive into what CPS is doing currently around equity, I'm curious, since you are the first person to have this title, congratulations, what is your professional and personal history with equity in education?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 4:28

I always tell people I was once a black boy, before I was what I call, I say, honestly, a middle class, black man. It was different when I was a boy and recognizing, a queer boy, like really trying to understand who I was as an individual, who I was in the context of where I lived. How do I understand myself in relationship to my family and friends? And figuring out life. And that was important for me over time that I started to see myself as being a person who was just as worthy and great and fantastic as all of my peers. And so as a young, as a young black boy, I was a part of the young, black and successful club. And we did a lot of great things. And then growing up through high school and college, I wanted to become a teacher because my high school teachers and Ms. Murrie and Ms. Strickland were, they were great. You know, I cussed Ms. Strickland out in ninth grade and she, long story short, put me in the future teachers club. And here I am, 25 years later-ish. 30 or something like that. Right? And so, knowing that I had someone to sort of pull me in and support me through my issues and things that I was struggling with, but also recognizing, like she said, I was a"talented young person." I appreciated her ability to not lose sight of who I was in spite of some of the things that were happening. And then I went to college, became an English teacher, got a master's in educational leadership, pursued my doctorate, just finished less than a year ago, that's a whole other story. And at the same time I had worked in rural Louisiana, started teaching in New Orleans, but worked in rural Louisiana then in Chicago. So I've seen inequity and equity play out in multiple places and spaces. And so I began to study it and as a principal at Tilden, my students had critical needs and I was struggling with addressing some of them. And so that sort of curated this equity lens that I started to develop over time. And when this job became available, you know, I went after it. Because I had started to figure out some things at the local level and had partners in multiple places and spaces. I figured that, you know,"I can do this"— with the support of the right people in the right community.

Keisha Wheat: 6:44

So we know that there's a five year vision, right? And then you have this background coming from Tilden, being the principal there, I mean, having your own personal story. CPS has an office of equity, can you tell us more about the office and what they're doing?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 6:59

Yeah. So the mission statement for the office is it's like this four-fold thing that the work is about supporting, developing, implementing, and reporting on efforts that eliminate the opportunity gaps for students and adults. That's the mission of the office that it's not about just how we sort of audit and help to develop things, but also how do we support people in the process? And when we developed the mission of the equity office, we were clear about it has to be about students and adults. Because adults serve young people and young people are expected to have a certain outcome. And so we think about, if we're thinking about equity, we have to think about the people who serve them, as well as the students who are being served

Katie Arbuckle: 7:37

And being that this is the first time we've had an equity chief. And the first time that there's been like a lot of work around this, how have you grown into this role as its first chief? I'm sure it's been a whirlwind.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 7:50

So a part of this honestly, is recognizing I have to be in front of people much more than I anticipated. Um, and that people really wanted to know, like,"How does a district, the size of Chicago think about equity and how do we early on begin to pursue some things?" And in the beginning I had to tell people, well, first I need to learn where the bathroom is and, you know, who's who around like that was that sort of natural humanistic learning curve for me. While at the same time, making sure that I was out in the community, listening to families and students, listening to teachers and principals so that if we're going to build this framework or way of approaching equity, where it can't be just about what Maurice knows, right? Like, we are all smart people and the collective wisdom can help to create something. And so we engaged over 3,000 people, personally. I was just looking at some of the names again, wondering who do I need to reach back out to? So that's how we kind of started. And I had to be on panels and talking to people. And that was, it became fun over time. But when you take on people's stories and hear about their experiences and how, you know, what their experiences were like, sometimes we have to think about what's the healing work and the equity work too. And so that's how it kind of started and that's where we are now.

Katie Arbuckle: 9:09

I mean as a teacher, like, I really appreciate the mindset you're coming from because we hear equity, equity, equity all the time, but I don't think there's been exact verbiage and an overarching mission of what we think it should look like in the third largest district in the, in the United States. And I think it's important that you're using language of"students and adults" together. Cause both should be using all of the terms that you're talking about. So I think that's great.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 9:39

Um, and that's the reason we went from like"five year vision" to"equity framework." Because the five year vision is like,"What are we going to do?" And I think overall, we, as a district and in the city, whether people want to do do these things or not, we actually know what we need to do in service of people, right? The question is,"How?" Like,"How do you get people to change their mind?" That's actually pretty hard. And how do we get people to agree on a certain set of principles? And so we shifted from starting off with like,"here's all these initiatives" and, you know, people have been asking,"What's the implicit bias training?" and"When are we doing all these things?" And all of those are like elements of some"thing," but if the"something" is not defined, then those elements don't actually stick. And there's enough research out there to say, just implicit bias by itself won't actually do much. Yeah.

Katie Arbuckle: 10:30

And I also appreciate that too, because being a veteran of CPS for nine years now. Kesha long, have you been...

Keisha Wheat: 10:35

15.

Katie Arbuckle: 10:36

I mean, I think we can almost say that when things get rolled out, oftentimes it's like, here's a strategy—here is a toolkit, or something like go use it and then what's the follow through? So I really appreciate the purposeful thinking of how do we gear up and get everyone in the same mindset.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 10:55

When we think about cameras and lenses, right? And we talk about an"equity lens." You've, you've seen a 3D movie probably, right? Like I love 3D movies because you get to sort of see the nuance in the movie, right? Like you get to see the distance between people, all these little things that we don't get with a typical movie. And that's how equity work is. You have to begin to see it very differently through a different lens to understand how complex this work actually is to even get to solving it.

Katie Arbuckle: 11:22

Do you want to talk a little bit about, do you think Keisha, the new"equity framework,? Should we dive into that?

Keisha Wheat: 11:30

And probably how we can use it? Being something so new though, right? Like we get these frameworks and it's like,"Now what do I do with it, Right?" How do we actually, how will we actually be able to like use this framework to actually do equity work within schools moving forward?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 11:47

It's one of the reasons why we put"draft." So the framework, funny story is actually a two part thing. We've only released the first half, which is more about the conceptual understanding of equity. And then the second half is more about what are the more actionable things that people can do. And we just heard from, as we were finishing up the framework that people were like, if you put it all out there, people are going to jump to the doing part and not the conceptual understanding part. So we were like, okay—split it, and move the other part to later that I won't give a release state because they never stick That happened once for me in Chalkbeat, and I thought I had a release date and I got some feedback from people and I thought,"I can't release it now. It's not where it needs to be for those who are on the other side of the experience." So what I will say that what the framework does, it gives a container to start talking about the things that we need to talk about first. So we do need to talk about race. We didn't talk about implicit bias or explicit bias. We do need to talk about who has a seat at the table, resource allocation, resource sharing—whatever that means for us, and fair policies and systems and what the framework does—it puts all of that language in this one place, so that people have an understanding of what it is and what it should be. And that's how we started to push it out. And it's, it's actually available online. Anybody can download it, but we didn't do an official rollout because to your point, right? Like we just roll things out traditionally in education and say,"Good luck." And we just were trying to remix the way in which we helped to develop people. But if you're thinking about how to use it, the first thing I would say is really understanding, understand"targeted universalism," which helps us to think about how there are different student groups within our classes or within our schools or within our communities and their needs are different. I know as a teacher, I was asked to do like differentiation, right? And, and what I found was I couldn't really differentiate because, a part of, I didn't understand enough about my students who are in front of me in order to figure out what their real needs are. And I don't know if I was provided with the right information to even do that, to be honest with you. So targeted universalism sets us up to say, you might actually, the black boys in your class might actually be very different. Their needs might be different. Some may have consistent living situations, some might be in temporary living situations. How do I need to think about that as a teacher? How do I have conversations with young people about that? Some, some black boys have middle-class experiences, right? Where they've seen the world and have done a lot. And how do we take a ccount for all of those things? So targeted universalism, if I c ould say t o t eachers like, look at the video, there's a link i n t he framework that explains it really easily, but also think about how are my students in my classroom, different from each other? And how do I begin to have conversations with them about their differences so that I could better serve them in advance t he work in my classroom. And the second thing I would say is look up"liberatory thinking," which is about the mindset piece. And it helps people to wrestle with these ideas of race, gender, all of these things that we need to talk about. But I think we first have to understand it within ourselves, before we get into conversation with other people.

Katie Arbuckle: 15:06

I think that process can make people sometimes feel a little icky on the inside and it can be uncomfortable. And I think when we are talking about this, like making that safe space and understanding that everyone, like you said, has different experiences, different backgrounds. So when you start to like, turn that mirror on yourself, to start to think about it, it can bring about some feelings amongst people, but knowing that that's okay. And that like getting past that those feelings only can lead to growth.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 15:36

Yeah. And that's one of the, so yeah, so we talk about"windows" and"mirrors" a lot in equity work. That I'm willing to hold up the mirror to myself while also looking at the window into other situations and circumstances. And sometimes there are some of us who are like, do a lot of mirror work without looking out into the window to see, to understand larger sort of context. And there's some of us who constantly look out the window and never turn the mirror back to ourselves. So in the framework there's called the CPS Equity Curve, which is about individuals doing this self-examination so definitely check that out too.

Keisha Wheat: 16:09

Yeah. I think it's a big part of like accepting the differences and using our differences to bring us together. Right? It's part of that building a community, right? We don't have to all be exactly the same, look the same, operate the same, but we all bring something to the table and that kind of levels it out, right? Because what you have access to, regardless of what your circumstances are, I've learned a lot from my students, right? Like some of the things that they come in, I'm like,"wow." And so I think that the equity would really help us to understand the narrative of everybody brings something to the table and appreciating what it is that everybody has to offer.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 16:40

And"appreciating with everybody has to offer." Yes. Um, I always say that each of us bring something special to the sauce. And so, like I love to cook by the way, I love to make gumbo, like I really love to cook. And I'm always thinking about that. Like, how do we show all of our, that we all add value to this classroom, to this school, to this district.

Keisha Wheat: 17:05

So let's get back to the framework and how it applies to teachers.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 17:08

The framework is content agnostic, meaning that it's not situated in like only academics. But that it can be, um, used in multiple ways and spaces for anyone to access. Part of Dr. Jackson's vision was like, how do we think about equity across the board within Chicago Public Schools? So what the framework does early on in relationship to teachers, I would say first it's about really understanding self, the CPS Equity Curve, and then moving into liberatory thinking like,"How do I need to think differently about the young people who are, who I'm servicing within my classroom or within my school?" And when we think about culturally responsive teaching or culturally relevant teaching or culturally linguistic teaching, all of that is centering around three sort of key principles that Gloria Ladson-Billings points out is that it's about academic success, which has a relationship to high expectations and student learning. Like how do we keep learning at the center more than the outcome at the center. And she does such a phenomenal job with just explaining if we transform the student experience in schools, we can transform the outcome. And from the district level, I'm thinking about that if we can transform the adult experiences across the district, we can transform the outcome. So that's, that's key. The second piece of it is having a cultural competence, which is about really,"How do I understand the young people who are in my room and the multiple identities that they bring to the space?" So whether it's about race and culture, whether it's about LGBTQ preferences, like whatever it is that young people that make them so unique,"How do I invite that into the learning space and use that cultural capital, if you will, to support young people in learning?" So if we're going to talk about U.S. History, how do I make connections with their experiences in life to U.S. History? And the third piece of that is around. This is the part that I think gets missed a lot. What culturally relevant or responsive pedagogy is the deeper, why? Like,"Why am I in class learning this?" and"How do I use this information to make the world and make my community a better place?" For some people, like what she talks about is the social socio-political consciousness. Like we're not doing school just for the sake of doing school. We're doing school because we all want to be productive citizens and transform the world around us. And how do we as teachers and as people who serve young people consider all three of those elements around academic success? Which means that we have to keep those high expectations, bringing student cultures into the space and helping students to connect to a greater,"Why?" So when I think about calculus, like calc I—listen, I didn't learn calculus until I watched the movie"Stand and Deliver," which is like an old movie. And when I watched that movie, I didn't realize calculus had a relationship with the universe, right? And I thought, Oh, so it does have a greater meaning to something else. And how do we do that real sense-making in classrooms. But in order to do that, the framework would say, you have to have liberatory thinking. You have to test your mindsets, inclusive partnerships, which is one of the dimensions of the equity lens saying that you have to have those who are impacted by decisions at the table. So how do I begin to tap into the expertise my young people are bringing to help me design this lesson in service of themselves in the classroom? So that's what, that's what the equity lens pushes for, like, not that I just need to design it for them, but I can design it with them. And how do I think about as a teacher, when I talk about fair policies and systems in the framework, when we talk about that, how does the policies or systems that I have in my classroom, whether it's about grading, whether it's about, who gets a job in the classroom. Who is benefiting from those policies and systems and who is burdened by them? And how do we begin to just challenge it? The ways in which we think in having student voice to help us to figure these things out.

Katie Arbuckle: 21:12

I mean, that's these three points. I mean, I just, I am swirling now with them. I'm like, go ahead and you changed my lesson plans. I need to go back and look again, because I think they're just so great. And I just love this idea of you not thinking about the outcome, but thinking about all of the nuts and bolts that go into making your classroom one that is"equitable," for lack of words, for all of the students who are in front of you and not just bucketing students into these categories and knowing that each one brings something unique to the equation. Yeah.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 21:44

And I believe many people have great intention, but intent and impact are different. And so one of the ways I grappled with this as a teacher and I don't, I won't say, I'm not speaking like I was always successful at this, right? But I do know the moment I asked students what they needed or how they thought about things, or do you think this will be a good activity we did? And when they would say,"No," I had to learn that they were actually giving me the best advice. And so we would have to reconfigure that. But the more I captured their voice, the better the outcome was because I was sort of capturing what their needs are and what the experience needed to be like for them. That is a challenge for teachers, I'm sure. But I think if we start to do it sometimes rather than never, or minimally, we can actually do more transformative experiences.

Keisha Wheat: 22:33

Yeah. I think that's the highest level of learning though, when you include the students, right? We know that we're living in a time where personalized learning is a big thing now, right? And it's all about the kids and where they are and including them in the lesson design and letting them actually talk about what units they want to learn about. And I think that when kids are actually involved in the design process, they're more involved in the learning, right? And so they, they have a say so, right? I think that so many times kids are just told, do this because I say so, do this because someone told you to do it. And when we do give them voice, they now take the initiative and they want to see it work. They want to see it be successful and more learning actually comes out of that because they do more research, they do a lot of planning, they set it up and they know what works best for them. Right?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 23:24

They do. And I always think about, you know, every time I've gone to the doctor, the doctor slows down to ask me what I need or what I'm experiencing,"How do I feel?" Like there's sort of a way a doctor sorta kind of gets in my brain and asks me, what are the symptoms of my, what I'm experiencing right now, to support me. And I've been sort of using that as a way in, cause we're also engaging teachers in the equity office. So what, like, I'm right now, I'm talking about the"window," right? Looking into other people's work. But if I hold that same perspective up to myself, I have to get teachers involved in the work of equity to make sure that it actually gets to the thing that we want. And I'm grappling with the same thing of how do we bring—we have an instructional equity working group that has teachers and some other people on it to help us think through these larger things, but that other person's voice, it's the"other person's" voice who doesn't typically get voice. They need to have voice. I hope that makes sense.

Katie Arbuckle: 24:21

So how do you deal with, or prepare for a student's answers? Like the other side of that question, like how, how does that look or sound?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 24:33

Here's my experience. We have students on our, who we work with, in the equity office. They give us feedback on our continuous improvement plan. So like schools have continuous improvement, work plans. Dr. Jackson has all of us downtown with continuous improvement plans as well, right? So we're all in this continuous improvement work. And we have students who are a part of, they give us feedback and sometimes they've what I've learned. If I wait too late to develop, if I develop something and then I get to the end and say,"Tell me about this." And they're like,"No," then I'm like,"Oh man, I shouldn't have not spent all this time." But if I get their voice in up front, it's much easier. Like I would say time, I think time is the variable. Ask early rather than later.

Katie Arbuckle: 25:18

And all this goes back to, I think, to just day one with your kids, to sitting down with them, looking at those fresh faces and starting to get to know them. And what is their background? What do they like? Like what games do you like to play? I mean, that, that's the thing so simple you can start pre-K all the way up to 12th grade.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 25:36

Yeah. And I think, you know, teachers, you all have value in relationships that can carry multiple years, right? And so if I were a teacher who was trying to figure out,"How do I navigate this relationship with the student?" Then I need to also figure out what teachers do great work with this student so that I can either emulate some of those behaviors or understand that person's approach. So I just want to just give a shout out to teachers supporting teachers. We can learn from each other on like how to, how to do this work well, right? Like there are some white women who are very effective with black and brown boys in the classroom. How do we capture that? How do we learn from black women who do great work across d ifferences a s well, right? There are certain people who have these elements about themselves and about the work that they do, that if we just talk to each other more informally o r formally, we can learn a lot from each other.

Keisha Wheat: 26:35

So before we talk about where CPS is going with it, currently, what's happening with the equity work in CPS?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 26:41

Yeah. It was a lot.

Katie Arbuckle: 26:44

That's good.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 26:46

I think at a very high level, the transformative work is about adaptive change, right? If I thought I could click a button or flip a light switch and just make everything more equitable or have all the resources and money, I'm sure many of us would, would elect to do that. But what we learn is, let me just set this up with like, the American education system wasn't designed to care about everybody. And many of us grew up in these systems and we are survivors of these systems. I won't say that everybody sort of thrived in the American education system. I think many of us figured out either how to play the game or we just, our family was able to set us up and we didn't have to do all that. And so when we talk about equity, we're saying we want the actual system to work for everyone in real life. And so that requires looking at the work of policy. So like, Chief McDade is, you know, guiding us and leading some work on some policies. And so, you know, Dr. Jackson is pushing on the budget. And so all of these ways we have to engage community and really understand people's experiences. So that's where we're looking at policies, looking at budget, the things that are most important to people, because those things help to unlock equity in other places and spaces. While at the same time we're doing the Pre-K expansion works, so we use, it's called the UIC Hardship or Opportunity Index to understand how neighborhoods in Chicago are different and where do we need to consider our investments? Where do we need to put the resources first and continue to build those resources out? You know, a little bit about the curriculum equity initiative, that's, that's booming. And I'm excited about that because as a former principal, it was important. You know, some teachers have multiple preps. Our special ed teachers are doing incredible work. And what we want to do is make sure that everybody has a quality curriculum to support and teach and educate the young people in front of them. And so that's probably one of the most special things that I'm happy about that we're launching, and gradually releasing over time. So those are some of the big buckets of work. And I would say the equity office is also a part of everybody else's work. So we do a lot of work with multiple offices and departments to figure out how do we also not step on each other's toes, but really do integrated work so that everybody wins. That's important.

Katie Arbuckle: 29:16

Yeah that seems like the fun part of this department is that it really does go in, and fits into every other department too, like seamlessly. And I think that that's so important that you're reaching out. Because I know from my time on the Teacher Advisory Council last year, just trying to track down certain people in certain departments, it's like,"Where am I going? Who do I go to?" So having this overarching idea of equity, like we should just be focused in that is so important in this day and age.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 29:52

Yeah. It's dope—it's fun. I mean, there are times where it can be exhausting, but that's life. We get tired. And when we get tired, we should just go to sleep and then wake up and keep going.

Katie Arbuckle: 30:08

We'll take a quick break. And then a reconnection with Chief Swinney and COVID's impact on the office of equity. You're listening to the Teach Chicago Podcast by Chicago Public Schools.

CPS Student 1 : 30:32

This episode is brought to you by Ms. Ayala at Darwin Elementary. Ms. Alaya finds ways to make class fun and easy. She pushes us to do our best. She makes tests and work easier by giving us the support we need. She gave us flexible seating, which releases our stress. Thank you, Ms. Ayala.

CPS Student 2: 30:48

This episode is brought to you by Mr. Richmond at King Academy. I appreciate Mr. Richmond because he taught me more things than I knew before. And I had a fun year with him. We did a lot of science experiments and different math problems that I didn't know how to do the years before that.

CPS Student 3: 31:02

(Spanish) This episode is presented by Mr. Rodriguez. Mr. Rodriguez is a great teacher and asked the principal if we could have a fuse room. A fused room is cool because we can do a lot of things like for grown ups.

CPS Student 4: 31:02

This episode is brought to you by Ms. Steele at Kind Academy. I appreciate Ms. Steele, because she helped me overcome my attitude. And she always there as a great role model to help me overcome and be more respectful to the adults.

CPS Student 5: 31:32

( Spanish) This episode is presented by Ms. Garcia at Darwin Elementary. I appreciate Ms. Garcia because she teaches us math and she teaches us science and she's a good teacher and if there is a problem she tries to make the problem better.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 31:59

There we go.

Keisha Wheat: 32:02

And now here's our reconnection with Chief Swinney.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 32:05

The world has changed hasn't it?

Keisha Wheat: 32:08

A lot. Especially since the last time we talked to you.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 32:12

Yeah, a lot. A whole lot.

Keisha Wheat: 32:12

So can you give us any update on the equity framework since that time?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 32:16

Yeah. The framework is complete.(Laughs) It's actually done. You know I tell people, honestly, the framework was a labor of love, because I talk with a lot of equity offices around the country and everybody's trying to figure out how to do it. And we spent a lot of time researching, talking to organizations, getting back in front of parents, I think people see what the draft was and then taking all of that information and coming back and refining it. So that if you open it, it should take you on a journey starting with the CPS Equity Curve, which is about like, how do you set up your mind and your own heart space to enter this work? And deconstructing what's currently happening right now so we could design the right equity challenge and change. And we have a companion guide coming out soon. So looking forward to that. We call it"Framework Part Two" because there was so much that we learned that we knew we just have to sort of keep building this out and then we'll have some professional learning opportunities for people to engage with us virtually.

Katie Arbuckle: 33:20

That was my next question too, was, how is the distribution of this framework going out and being communicated with teachers and other staff members across CPS?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 33:29

Yeah. We first are starting with school leaders to give them time to learn and to build some context and structure around equity. I think the last time we talked, we had already, we were in the middle of going into each network. And so we met with Principals with the draft, and with the tools and now it's like, okay, now we finalize those things. And if you haven't seen the site you should go to equity.cps.edu. We have a public facing equity toolkit. And so on that equity website, you can see the framework in a digital format. You can download the framework. We have stories of people in CPS teachers and school leaders. If you want to just read about people's approach to the work, they're at least I think, 400 tools available there now between articles and readings and videos, and then other ways to check in. So we're continuing to build that out, but we made it actually very public facing because we also know that families and communities want to engage in this work as well. And so we're continuing to think about that too. So equity.cps.edu. Like, if you're wondering, how do we talk about anti-racism and anti-bias? It's there. What are some supports around culturally responsive education? It's there. We wanted to make it very simple to navigate. So people could look up the resources that they need.

Katie Arbuckle: 34:51

I was curious if the Office of Equity had a part in the reopening framework and how that's going?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 34:59

You know, one of the things, when we started the reopening framework development, it was, it was important from myself and my team to do a lot of studying around what's happening all around the world. And so there were a couple of organizations who were doing like international studying of reopening school. Now we know in America, we're kind of in this little flux, there's a lot going on. And so we have to make sure we're very responsive to what the science is saying, but I think I'm so optimistic about the intellectual ways in which teachers can engage young people and inviting young people into this space. Like I know there are all of the rules and the structures, but nothing the relationship and the way people connect. I don't care where we are. And so we have to build in that connection and like, how am I prepared for, you young people? I've seen some bomb teacher videos like magic. I mean, people are doing some introductory things for young people that are phenomenal, but you know, we'll keep listening and keep learning and teachers will keep giving feedback and we'll keep the process, the development of it all going.

Keisha Wheat: 36:00

Now we know when you originally made the equity framework, it was pre-COVID. So, COVID happened. It put us all at home and it changed so much. Were there any revisions where you all went back into the framework and say, you know what, this may be an area where we need to add something to ensure that, you know, equity still happens, even in the case of remote learning to ensure that all students are getting access to everything they need, the curriculums are equitable and so forth and so on? So were there any revisions that you said,"Oh no, wait, something else is coming," so we need to do something different as well?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 36:33

We did get some examples in the end on how to use the CPS Equity Lens to unpack. And so we gave one remote learning COVID-related example. I think one of the things that people, we will all continue to grapple with, about equity is that we are actually asking each other to be different in service of young people, which is different from like, Hey, let me find a new teaching strategy to help you learn. It's like,"Oh, I actually need to be different in who I am as a person in order to serve you better." And that is going to be the sort of bigger shift that we want to make sure that we're promoting as the office of equity and helping everyone grapple with that. Like,"How do I understand the people who I'm serving, not through my identity, but through theirs?" And that's going to be the sort of largest shift. That's going to in some way require us to go slower, to move fast.

Keisha Wheat: 37:26

Yeah. I'm just thinking about how that will apply to our new reality of learning remotely. And that puts a whole new meaning to"How do I get to know my kids"? How do I get that? How do I get to know their identity? And I think that's going to be a big thing for teachers to tackle.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 37:46

Yeah. I think sometimes all of us, when we don't know there is greater potential to cause harm because we make assumptions about what people value, what words mean to people. Like I just heard, like students, I was talking to the student voice activism fellowship, and I used the word"kids" and they were like, Oh, let's not use that word anymore. And they were talking about how"kids" are references to goats. And how they want to be called youth, or young people because kids also connects to like, preschool age, right? When y ou're a very young learner and they want us to respect them as young adults. And so we have t o transition language. And so even that, that was the learning f or me, right. So I need to stop using the word"kids" and talk about"young people" a nd"youth" as a way of their evolution. And that's what they pushed me on. And I had to make that shift, but that requires a change in my mindset, not theirs, because they have a c learer understanding of who they are a nd I have to learn them to serve them better.

Keisha Wheat: 38:49

I think that's a big, powerful point is that we have to do a lot of shifting as the adults in order for this equity work to live, is that we need to think about how we communicate the words that we use and what we're putting out in order for equity to actually live in.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 39:05

We want to make sure that when we start to roll out professional learning experiences for teachers, that we're centering the human experience in all of this. It's very easy to come up with. Here's the culturally responsive strategy, like,"Hey, read this book because it has black people in it." And that has happened before. And then what I also found was, what role did the black people play in this book? Was it always, you know, best supporting actor or best supporting actress as it, which is different from being the the center of the story in a very asset-spirited way and not just, you know, poor, sad, and that has a lot of the historical context. And so we, there's actually a tool that we have that teachers can use to analyze curriculum. We didn't create, it actually comes from, NYU, but it's a curriculum scorecard. And we think that's one of the ways in which to really, really look at, is this curriculum actually responsive, or am I just taking certain characters in, you know, saying that,"Oh, you have this type of person in it so that makes it culturally responsive" when that's not always the case.

Keisha Wheat: 40:17

So I know that one of the deep-dive models that the office of teaching and learning is offering is actually on the equity framework. So what would be the benefit for a teacher, especially now at the beginning of the school year, when teachers are diving into the work, what would be one of the benefits for a teacher to actually go into that deep-dive model and pick that up?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 40:35

Yeah. So one of the things that we're centering in the framework is"liberatory thinking." You know, there's a lot of work around anti-racist, anti-biased courageous conversation, but we take the stance of, in order for that to really happen, how are we thinking about things? Because our thoughts are producing our actions. And if there's a space to challenge us, even with meditation, right, sometimes when you meditate, you get to observe your thoughts. We gotta be clear on what we're thinking about ourselves and about other people's children. And so we plan to spend time lifting up liberatory thinking within that training. And then also"targeted universalism," is about how do you set a goal high enough for everyone to achieve and then understand how different people are situated against that goal. And then what are the strategies needed for those different groups of people to get to that goal that. Sometimes people relate that to MTSS and I get that, but actually don't think it's MTSS. Traditionally MTSS goes back to even no child left behind where it's like, how do we get other kids to be like other kids? And a lot of times it was like, how do you close these achievement gaps? Which was a lot of times talking about how do we get black and Brown children to perform like white kids? That has always been the way that's been framed. And it's like, no, people are situated differently to the goal. So you don't think about comparing them to other young people. What is the goal? The gap is an opportunity gap that we need to figure out. But if the goal is graduation for black and brown boys, for example, then what do they tell us they need for that? And we develop the tool and that's one of the supports that we'll give to teachers because we've got to move away from like, comparing groups and then thinking whatever strategy is working for whatever dominant group, whether it's male, female, whatever, that it's going to work for everybody. And we've got to deconstruct that—that's not, that's not real.

Katie Arbuckle: 42:30

As the chief of equity, what do you foresee as the goal this year? Like, do you have like a vision for equity work?

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 42:39

Yeah, I think we've gotta use the framework, and we've got to share it, and we've got to learn and we've got to keep ourselves in the space of learning. I know there's a lot, like,"Do this, do this, do this, do this." But I've been doing that with diet plans. I've done a lot of doing, and not everything has changed. And so why is that, right? Like, what do I need to understand about either foods or habits or just whatever if I want a different result. And so we are taking a professional learning stance this year. Now there still will be some policy work. Like we're doing a lot around policy change and we're involved in just about all of the big decisions that are happening over time and we'll stay involved in that. But I think in terms of supporting teachers and principals, there are probably two of the groups that we want to make sure we spend some time with. You know, sometimes I never thought I'd be like, yeah, framework, framework, framework, but it's written to help people know how to do equity work. And not just like,"here's the new math strategy." It's like, I don't know if that's what young people are really asking for, because let me tell you, I'm gonna give you one quick story. My little nephew loves to play video games. So I remember sitting with him and I was looking at the remote, right? And they had like 14 buttons on a remote. And I was like, well, what are these four? And then you got these two sort of like thumb, you can circle those around and you've got the, you can click all of these buttons. And so I started to examine the remote and he had the headphones and he's looking at the screen. And he's navigating all of this at one time. Which means that I don't know if young people have a problem with screen time, as much as they have a problem with us knowing how to meet their learning demand in a digital space. You know, I hear a lot about"learning loss" or"they won't learn." And I'm like, they're playing these video games with headphones on, watching TV, and getting constant feedback on their learning. What is the work that we need to do as adults in order to transition into this digital space where young people live all the time. That's, that's what I think I want to keep thinking through and problem solving with people.

Keisha Wheat: 44:44

Well, thank you so much for joining us again, Dr. Maurice Swinney CPS chief of equity, and we so look forward to getting into the work as the school year is started and we thank you so much.

Dr. Maurice Swinney: 44:55

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Ellen: 44:58

Hi, I'm Ellen and I work in the CPS Talent Office. It's my job to help teacher candidates find a job in Chicago Public Schools. I'm here to tell you about the hiring experience in CPS, but I'm not a copywriter. So, I thought we could try something else. Hey, Jordan.

Jordan: 45:20

Hey, Ellen.

Ellen: 45:22

So I'm trying to share what getting a job in CPS is like for prospective teachers out there.

Jordan: 45:30

Ok.

Ellen: 45:30

And I figure, you know better than anybody since you were recently hired. I was wondering if you would be so kind to share your experiences with us.

Jordan: 45:40

Definitely. So around this time, actually last year, I first received an email from you because you saw my resume and things online, and you thought that I would be a great fit for Opportunity Schools. I had never heard of it. So I looked it up further from our conversation and I thought it'd be a great fit. I'm sure I got on your nerves, I emailed you all the time with questions and you always responded very quickly. You always assured me that I could reach out at any time. You always called, even over the summer when I was having questions on next steps, I never felt like I was at a point where I don't know what's going on, or I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing because you always jumped in.

Ellen: 46:21

So where are you teaching now?

Jordan: 46:22

I am currently at Avalon Park on the South Side of Chicago and I teach fourth and fifth grade literacy.

Ellen: 46:30

And how's it going?

Jordan: 46:30

It's great. I was nervous at first, because I had never taught fourth and fifth grade. I've always taught middle school. I was nervous to go to that upper primary level, but I love it. I love my school. I love my principal. I love my kids, honestly, it was a perfect fit.

Ellen: 46:47

I am so glad it is going so well for you. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today.

Jordan: 46:54

No problem. And thank you for everything that you did for me.

Ellen: 46:58

Interested in teaching for Chicago Public Schools? Real people like me are standing by to find the right school for you. Visit teach.cps.edu to learn more.

Katie Arbuckle: 47:18

All right, let's wrap the show up.

Keisha Wheat: 47:19

Special thanks to CPS chief of equity, Dr. Maurice Swinney for joining us on our inaugural episode. Additionally, thanks to our students at King and Darwin elementary school for our teacher appreciation ad. Our bell for this episode comes from Smyser Elementary,"Go Eagles!" Season one of the Teach Chicago Podcast is Keisha, Katie, Jennifer, and Collin. You can find more information about the Teach Chicago Podcast and links to resources discussed in this episode at cps.edu/tcpod. Additionally, if you're a teacher interested in teaching in Chicago Public Schools, visit teach.cps.edu to learn more.

Katie Arbuckle: 47:58

Attention, CPS teachers, we're looking for your input as we build this show. Discussion topics for our first season include fulfilling work cultures within our schools, trauma, teacher appreciation, and student voice. If you'd like to submit a question or weigh in on any of these topics, please email us at teachchicagopod@cps.edu. Feedback, of course, is always appreciated. Subscribe to the Teach Chicago Podcast by hitting that small little"subscribe" button, wherever you get your podcast. You can also take five minutes and leave us a review, which helps the show tremendously. Copyright 2020, Chicago Public Schools. We'll be back in October with our second episode topic"trauma." Until then, Teach Chicago.